Author photo by Alex Tran, provided courtesy of the author

Agata De Santis is a Montreal-based filmmaker, writer, and Italian Canadian. She has written about Mal’occhio – Italian for the “evil eye” – and her 2010 documentary film Mal’Occhio explores how practicing mystics ward off those evils. I first learned about her work in 2023, when her short film Rossi and Company was showing at the Big Apple Film Festival. We chatted about the film and the history of the E. Rossi & Company souvenir store in Little Italy, New York.

More recently, she wrote Sundays with La Famiglia, a combination memoir, history book, and recipe collection. The book is a celebration of Sunday dinner with the family, the tradition among Italian immigrant families to gather every Sunday for large meal. She looks at the recipes that brought her family together, and how the tradition helped shape her relationship to her identity and with her family. We met up over Zoom to chat about the book, Sunday sauce, family recipes, and more.

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RED SAUCE AMERICA: You called it Sunday sauce. In the New York City area, there’s a little bit of a debate between the term sauce and gravy. I was curious, is this something that translates into the Canadian and Italian Canadian community?

AGATA DE SANTIS: No, I’m afraid that we make fun of our Italian American counterparts when we hear the term gravy.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: Do you think that has to do with the geography or the period of immigration?

DE SANTIS: Yes. I always say, I’m based in Montreal, born and raised, and there are terms that have infiltrated our lingo. And it’s because of where we live. There’s a lot of things that we will mix in– French words and English words– into our vocabulary that no one else does. And I think the gravy term is like that in the U.S.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: Part of what makes this book amazing is all these personal photos that you have. Were they the inspiration for the book or something you came to after writing it?

DE SANTIS: This is the second book I wrote where it’s an illustrated coffee table book. Someone can just pick it up and read any chapter since every chapter is self-contained. And I like that because not everybody’s interested in reading books cover to cover.

It’s always prettier with photos. I knew some of my family archival photos would make it into the book. But I also wanted to expand it and, and seek out other photos of families gathering around the Sunday table. And, you know, I work in documentary, that’s my day job. I deal a lot with archives.

I love delving into archival research. And I had so much fun doing it. Sometimes a photo inspires a chapter. There’s a chapter on these great photos from 1974, in Little Italy, New York. I had gone to this particular archive looking for other things. And then I came across these photos. Before I realized, I was like: Oh, my God, there’s an entire series of photos from this one day in New York’s Little Italy during a feast in the 70s. Can I get permission to use these photos?

Then I find out from the woman at the archive center, she said: Oh, we commissioned this photographer, we own them. That afternoon, I knew I just found a new chapter in my book that I wasn’t anticipating.

I know I’m privileged in that my family still gets together often on Sundays. Not every week, but the whole gang was together yesterday, thirteen of us. I talked to friends and colleagues and strangers about this. They always have an excuse: our grandmother used to cook, she’s no longer around; my mom used to cook; everyone’s so busy. If it’s a priority, if you make it a priority, then it happens.

I have a WhatsApp group with my siblings. Around Thursday or Friday, there’s a discussion: are we free? Who’s free? I would say that at least once, maybe twice a month, we’re all together.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: You discuss your mother having the basement kitchen—is that common thing in the Montreal Italian American community?

DE SANTIS: What happened was there was a period when the new wave of immigration was coming after the war. People bought homes with, usually, unfinished basements and created their own kitchen setting.

But a unique thing happened in Montreal at one point in that a developer bought land in the eastern part of Montreal, now infamously known as St. Leonard. And he actually built homes with the second kitchen and the cold room already as part of the plans, because his target clientele was Italian families.

They were bigger homes, nice yards. A lot of them would have tenants upstairs so it was a revenue home as well. It really became a thing people were buying. But, you know, growing up, I thought that was normal. We had a second kitchen. All of my aunts and uncles had second kitchens. It’s when you meet people outside of your group and you’re like: oh, you guys only have one kitchen?

RED SAUCE AMERICA: Is there is there a big tradition also of growing your own vegetables in the Montreal?

DE SANTIS: Yes. My mother always jokes that she remembers when everybody made fun of Italians in Montreal growing vegetables in their backyard. Now it’s become a very accepted hobby. Now it’s a very cool thing to do. People are growing vegetables on their balconies or any space they can find.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: Was anyone concerned that you were giving away the trade secrets of the family?

DE SANTIS: No. I went through my filing cabinet. I had this folder that had been there for many years. It was just called “Family Recipe Book” because many, many years ago, one of my brothers had said: you know, we should really collect all of mom’s recipes.

He turned around to me and said: you’ll do it, right?

With some, like the Christmas dessert, the calzoni di ceci, the fried ricotta with chickpeas, chestnut paste, chocolate and amazing spices, I recorded it years ago. My mom and my aunt used to always bake together for both households. But I drove them nuts trying to get the measurements because Italian moms don’t measure. It’s kind of all done by feeling. Or we’d be making tomato sauce and I’d say: oh, we should really record this. Some things I had already recorded for this future “Family Recipe Book.”

I have a chapter on making pickled eggplant. I had finished writing the book. I was at my hairdresser’s house, and I talked to him about this book. He and his partner are very into gardening and making homemade stuff, and he asked: does your mom make pickled eggplant? I’d love to know the recipe because we’re thinking of doing it.

I thought: I’ve never watched the whole process from start to finish. My mom does it on her own. On the drive home, I knew that needed to be in the book. We bought a case of eggplants. And it turns out it is a three-day process. I forced her to wait for me for every step so I could photograph it.

It’s like a giardiniera, a pickled vegetable, just that it’s only eggplant. And then you add a little bit of garlic and pepper, cut into little pieces just to give it a bit of flavor. It has to sit in vinegar for 24 hours and then you have to get rid of all the excess liquid.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: Your family were part of a post-war immigrant group to Canada. Do you see big differences in Canada between the 19th century diaspora and the post-war diaspora?

DE SANTIS: In Canada, we’re about a generation later than Italian Americans. A lot of Italian Americans immigrated before World War II. In Canada, the majority of the of the Italian diaspora in Canada, came after the Second World War. There’s a closer connection to Italy because of that generation.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: Why do you think the Sunday meal is such a universal experience, which seemingly transcends international borders, like Canada and the United States?

DE SANTIS: You’re gathering together for amazing food, and it’s what connects us. My siblings and I have a WhatsApp group, but the majority of time, I see them on the Sunday when we get together. It’s an excuse to get together. It’s an excuse to stay connected. The food is the bonus.

It took me a while to realize that the food on the table is the bonus. We’re getting together to be together as a family, for the siblings to stay in touch, for the cousins to interact, to see your parents, so it’s just so important.

And I think we subconsciously realize we need that connection. You know, with the family you grew up with, seeing each other every day, and then everybody goes off to live their own lives. When I ask people what they miss about Sundays, yes they say: it’s Nonna’s food or mom’s food. But it’s also: that’s the only time I saw my cousin. We used to play board games or Italian card games together. It was just the unity of keeping the families together.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: You talk about the meatballs that your mother was making. And I’m curious about this, because meatballs are very much an Italian-American creation. And so, was that something that came from Italy? Or was that something that came from being in Montreal?

DE SANTIS: I don’t actually know. My father was a butcher, and his dad was a butcher, and all his brothers are butchers, and one of his nephews in Italy is still a butcher. I definitely remember the great cuts of meat when we were with my father’s family, just because they’re butchers. And the sausage, we definitely cured sausage and still cure sausage. But meatballs, yeah, I don’t know.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: do you feel like you have Italian-American influences penetrating into Canadian-Italian cuisine? Do you have chicken parm?

DE SANTIS: We do cutlets, veal, and sometimes chicken. But the parm, not as much, at least not in my household. My mom’s the main cook, and she has not been to the US often, and she doesn’t watch American TV. Her influence is more Montreal culinary experiences. She has French influences and a mix of certain vegetables that are easy to grow in Montreal that maybe weren’t in Italy.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: You’ve traveled to many Little Italy’s around the world and have expert knowledge in that. What are some of the universals you see in these places that really define those neighborhoods?

DE SANTIS: If we look at Little Italy’s today, what definitely defines them is that, unfortunately, Italians don’t live there anymore. It’s a remnant. What’s left are the cafes and the restaurants, the occasional gift shop. It’s really the food that’s left and kind of nostalgic sculptures or murals or usually some kind of art installation that reminds us that this used to be the hub.

I see in Montreal now, we have one strip of street that used to be really the Little Italy, which is St. Lawrence Boulevard, and what’s happened in the last decade and a half is young entrepreneurs of Italian origin are opening restaurants, cafes, that kind of thing. But on the side streets. It’s kind of expanded because that strip was very exclusive and very expensive. They wanted to be in the area. I always tell people who come to visit, you can walk down St. Lawrence, but do the side streets. They’re more interesting.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: Are there any little Italy neighborhoods that you see that are doing it correctly, where they are revitalizing with a younger generation of businesses?

DE SANTIS: In Melbourne, Australia. Their little Italy is beautiful. I find it’s still quite big.

A lot of Little Italy’s are kind of just sizing down because other nationalities are buying up the land, buying up businesses and the properties. I find there’s a new generation of Italians, like new immigrants from Italy. Last time I was there, there were some amazing restaurants and cafes run by like recent Italian immigrants. So that’s keeping it alive.

They also have an Italian museum, it’s called Museo Italiano and it’s not that old. I think they opened it in the last, I would say 15 years or so maybe they’re hitting 20 years. They do activities there. There’s a reference library. There’s a small museum space that shows off the history of Italians in Australia. They produced an amazing book that I have on the history of Italians in Australia.

And it was because before the museum even existed, there was an organization, like a historical organization that was slowly collecting all the archives and photos and information about the Italian diaspora in Melbourne. When they built the museum and they wanted to build a little permanent exhibition and do a book, it was easy because the material was already there.

RED SAUCE AMERICA: In your research, you’ve come across both Italian Canadian and Italian American traditions. Are there any big differences that you see and what are they?

DE SANTIS: With Montreal culture, we are stuck in the 1970s bubble, the traditions, of my parents’ generation brought over in the 60s and 70s. They didn’t evolve like those traditions evolved in Italy. If I look at my cousins in Italy, who are in my case a little younger than me, but the same generation, there are things we still hold on to from the 60s and 70s here that they are like: that’s what grandpa and grandma used to do.

We’re in a time warp here. But that happens with any immigrant community right when you leave the motherland, that culture of that period is what you bring with you and what you pass on to your kids and your grandkids, whereas Italian Italians — I want to use the word more modern, but they’ve evolved from the same of the traditions.

A lot of the stuff like the food practices that we do, they don’t all necessarily do that in Italy. They’ve kind of evolved from that. They’re more into store-bought stuff.

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Agata De Santis will be at E. Rossi & Company on September 25 to 27, 2026 during the San Gennaro Festival promoting the book, or purchase online directly from her site .

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